The Gaming Den

Jerk with a Heart of Gold. If P and D are actively trying to fuck up the world, then Darkrai is a good guy. If they do it by being awake/existing, then he's a good guy. If P&D are benign beings, then evil dick.

The extra weight for legendaries seems like a good idea. However, it should only apply to multi-poke battles. So you can have a retinue of six Pokemon in your backpack, but when you want to get your tornado tag on, the squad system dictates that the match becomes a legendary vs. normal Pokemon handicap match.

damn, there goes the image of Groudon sniping shmucks with solar beam while five plusles dance on his head using helping hand...

Yeah, I'd say Darkrai is a pretty good guy. I think Banette tops the asshole list and is also creepy as fuck.

Prak_Anima wrote:damn, there goes the image of Groudon sniping shmucks with solar beam while five plusles dance on his head using helping hand...

Well, there's no reason that two trainer's couldn't pull that off.

Banette looks awesome. But not the one in that drawing with the ugly face. So a few points here...

So we obviously aren't doing Stat Boosts the Pokemon way, with percentile multipliers. Even having "The number of increases is applied as a bonus" means Belly Drum gives +6 and hey look, it's the 4E problem! We're probably looking at a damage multiplier/flat booster (for offence) and divider/flat reducer (for defence).

Sure, maybe some moves can lower or raise stats by a couple of points - as in "+/- 2 is the limit". Because of the kind of HP:damage scaling we're looking at, the game could happily survive big bonus damage or damage multipliers for high stats.

Also, so we're looking at each pokemon having 3*16 and 1*8-or-less moves over their career. Let's go with that 20 level thing. We wouldn't even need a progression chart: every list would just put the moves in the order you get them, with "Level X" there so you know when. And some lists vary it a bit.

So someone might, due to their lists, have 2 moves at level 1, gain another at level 3, then one at level 4, two at 5, skip 6... (keeping in mind that once you hit X moves you have to start replacing old ones, and have to have a specific number of At Wills), whereas this other guy gets a level 1 move, then a level 2, two level 3, a level 4, skip 5, three level 6...

Or we could do a 20-level chart and tie them all equally to that (meaning each list has a level 1, 2, 3, 4, -, 6, 7, 8, 9, -, 11, 12, 13, 14, -, 16, 17, 18, 19, -" move, so everyone gets three moves at level 1, and nobody ever gets anything at level 5 except for the stat increases.

I like the former idea more, as it means you can space them out to probably get at least one move per level. But maybe there's a good compelling reason (such as "It's more balanced if everyone gets the same amount of same-levelled stuff at the same time") to do it the other way.

And did we decide how many moves people should have? I like the 1 Ability, 3-ish At Wills and 3-5 "Prepared" (but still presumably unlimited uses?)

So long as every list gives out a first level option, it seems like the game would be more balanced and functional with the different lists handing out powers at basically random intervals. The first level options are all(?) at-wills and the higher level powers include at-wills but also include ones that have to be prepared. We don't want to get into the bullshit of 4e where the characters don't ever upgrade their fallback maneuvers. I genuinely want Flygon to be falling back on Dragon Claw, not Sand Attack. Since people will always be getting just a single Short List, and never without some full lists, it s acceptable for short lists to give out Prepared Moves at first level.

That being said, I don't think it is a wise idea to get overly hung up bou everyone filling up their at-will list at first level or any level. Tackle is on more than one list, and I could easily see some weird Pokemon like Girafig or Bronzor or some fairly uninteresting Pokemon like Hoppip or Sentret ending up with one move on more than one of their lists or just get shorted in their number of long lists altogether. I think this is potentially OK.

---

Now as to the big question on how to limit players from stacking up ith Articunos, I genuinely think that the Mystery Dungeon plan is a bad plan. Because Onyx and Wailmer are fucking huge but not especially world breaking. Just having a Pokemon being "big" is not enough for it to take up multiple slots. And Registeel and Celebi are totally hax, so being human sized or smaller is no indication that it should be allowed to run free in an otherwise full party.

My preferred solution I think is giving out a Leadership Score. That is that each Pokemon has a Leadership cost, and you can't lead more total points cost worth of Pokemon than your Leadership value. And totally badass monsters like Regirock or Groudon have a Leadership cost that is hueg like X Box and if you grab one, that's much of your team picked out right there.

An advantage to this, is that Enrothians already have an expectation of badass sorcerers and badass commanders ho can keep lots of troops in line being different but somewhat equivalent occupations. And what this means is that we can straight up give classes like the Psychic and the Medium less Leadership because they are in effect paying some of it to upgrade their Pokemaster. This also allows us to seemlessly use Giants or Pokemon as Pokemasters - just have them buy off their leader with their Leadership score reduction and run with it.

In conclusion: this is why Ash Ketchum is the best Pokemaster ever. It's because he is personally fucking useless, and therefore has the biggest possible Leadership score. So he can have a wicked badass Charizard. His class is "Pokemaster" and he's basically just a kid with a bug catching net and a bicycle.

-Username17

Yeah, so leadership is just your point value maximum.

Jilocasin wrote:They could just have a point value maximum, justifying that wouldn't even be difficult. All you need to say is that legendaries need more of a trainer's attention, or whatever. So you could have a legendary and maybe three 'normal' pokemon or six 'normal' pokes before you reach maximum allotted point value for you team.

I like leadership a lot. Sounds great to me, and expanding it to make the kid with Struggle a good idea is pretty awesome. If no one has any compelling reason not to I say we go with a Leadership Score. I guess the question then becomes whether or not it's a static number or if it increases. I guess the biggest reason for scaling would be if you didn't want a first level character to be able to control a Charizard while a higher level character could have 4 or 5 flying around. I'm actually completely in favor of scaling, the math should be plenty workable too. Not to mention, starting out with a Starly and Mudkip and working up to a Staraptor, Swampert, Dragonite, Magneton and Rapidash (or Cauchemar) is very iconic.

So about moves, if there's no real expectation of filling up all your slots then the amount you originally posited seems fine. I think it should be assumed that of course people who play will greatly desire filling up all their slots. At least, the kind of people I play with would want to make sure their slots were filled as soon as possible.

I figure that most pokemon people would want to use would have three long lists and one short list. And assuming a few possible overlaps that gives us anywhere between probably 46 and 56 unique moves per pokemon. So yeah, if that's over a period of 20 levels it definitely lets us avoid the 4e "your at-wills are your at-will forever" thing. It's safe to assume that the same move on different lists will always be listed at the same level right? So Tackle is always level 1, Bubble is always level 2, etc.

Oh, also just as an aside. Are Continuous powers like Flash Fire and Motor Drive going to have their own lists? Or are they going to be dependent on species like the game/show?

Edit:

Anyway, over a period of 20 levels and fairly random distribution of moves I think it would be quite rare for there to be any empty levels. I consider this an extremely good thing. This is assuming pokemon with 3*16 and 1*8. Here are couple of spreads. There might be overlap, so, again, the actual number of unique moves is likely to be a couple lower.

Level	Spread 1	Spread 2	Spread 3
1	2	4	1
2	3	2	3
3	1	5	2
4	2	2	5
5	2	3	4
6	4	4	2
7	3	1	5
8	2	3	3
9	3	2	1
10	4	5	5
11	3	1	3
12	5	4	1
13	2	3	1
14	4	2	2
15	2	2	1
16	1	2	2
17	4	1	5
18	2	3	5
19	4	4	1
20	3	3	4

---

Here's another move set.

Desert Storm

• Sand-attack
• Gust
• Rock Polish
• Bide
• Sand Tomb
• Dig
• Sandstorm
• Rage
• Camouflage
• Earthquake
• Spikes
• Supersonic
• Whirlwind
• Ominous Wind
• Earth Power
• Fissure

I don't actually understand that table. The numbers don't seem to work out for anything I think it could plausibly be about.

In any case, I think some sort of decisions need to be made on points totals.

The first is leadership point maximum per pokemon. That is to say that we don't really want players to cash in all their pokemon for a single pokemon that happens to be six times the level. And simply jacking up the cost increase of level increases doesn't really accomplish an effective limitation of that without getting into extremely cumbersome and titanic numbers. If level increases are some exponent of point cost, things get pretty hairy after you put in 19 of them. Just for reference: 2 to the 19th is over half a million.

Basically there are two things we don't want: the first is having a player cash in their entire side for a level 15 Snorlax or Chancey that can seriously just heal itself faster than the entire enemy force could conceivably damage them and still get some poundings in to wear down the opposition. That can be solved either by putting a point cap on each pokemon or by setting the cost increase from level X to level X+1 to something that is relatively large enough that brokenly high levels are not affordable. The second pitfall we want to avoid is people fielding 80 Sandshrews. And the solution to that is to either hand out a hard cap on number of led pokemon or to put a base cost inherent in having a pokemon. Now obviously, the point shenanigans can't cover both eventualities, since one looks like this:

And the other looks like this:


Personally, I prefer the second option of point cost jiggery pokery, because numerically it's much more manageable with more than 2-4 levels available. And that pretty requires a point cap for individual pokemon as I understand things.

And what does that mean? That means that the preferred system would be to spend as many points on an individual as possible, because the "base cost" of filling the slot at all is non-zero. And then people would add in extra pokemon if they had points left over. That's probably a bit much, but if we made the cost increase at each level non-linear and non-exponential it could probably work. The expansion graph would look something like this:



-Username17

Those pictures don't show, Frank. Even when I right click > View Image.

The hosting must've gone down. I could see them the first time around, but not now.

Yeah, those pictures went away. Wolfram Alpha has failed me again. Ah well. Have to use raw numbers.

Let's say that you wanted to use leadership cost incentives to get people to choose to upgrade their Pokemon by N levels or get a new Pokemon at roughly equal amounts. Obviously, the points cost of a Pokemon that is N levels higher must be double the points cost of the Pokemon of lower level. And that just leads to crazy - if N equals 2, then a 19th level Bulbasaur has to cost five hundred and twelve times what a 1st level Bulbasaur does. exponentials are just not a good way to set up incentives if you need to distinguish between 20 different options (and considering that that Bulbasaur could be an Ivysaur, there are a lot more than 20 different options). And that means that cost incentives just can't work to prevent people from spending all their points upgrading Mr. Mime - and that in turn essentially means that "incentivizing" people to not pore all of their points into on badass Gyrados is probably going to have to be done with a flat cap on the number of eggs that can be placed in one basket.

Now the flip side is getting people to field like six Pokemon and not thirty six of the fuckers. This can be done by putting absolute caps, and it can be incentivized by putting a basic points surcharge on each pokemon on the team. So for example, if it costs 10 points for a new Pokemon and 2 points a level, a player will want to pump their points into more levels rather than more Pokemon. Possibly too much so actually.

So here's a system that has sufficient advantages that it's the basis of D&D equipment: you have each level increase in cost by more than the last level. But you have a surcharge on each pokemon at all. The base cost might be something like 3 points + current level to increase. Which if you care is (Level) * (Level-1) + 3. And that would encourage people to grow their Pokemon at least to level 3 before buying a new one.

Now, level costs are probably going to want to increase by more than 1 point per level per level. And the base cost of each Pokemon is probably going to want to be high enough that the players are encouraged to grow their pokemon up to the sorts of levels you're looking for before they expand their army. But that's just a math problem.

The real problem is deciding what we actually want players to have. From where 'm at, it seems like the first level and twentieth level are pretty much spoken for, and the middle can be plausibly argued to go in any direction. At first level, the character has a sandshrew and a pidgie. At 20th level, the character has Tiamat, Battlebriar, Ninjask, Alakazam, Marilith, and Effigy. Which means that the following questions need to be asked:

• At what levels should people have the spare points to make getting their 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Pokemon worth while?
• At what levels should people have the spare points available that it makes sense to have upgraded Pokemon in their faction?
• At what levels should people have the spare points available to make putting a Legendary Pokemon on their roster a sensible life choice?

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:

• At what levels should people have the spare points to make getting their 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Pokemon worth while?
• At what levels should people have the spare points available that it makes sense to have upgraded Pokemon in their faction?
• At what levels should people have the spare points available to make putting a Legendary Pokemon on their roster a sensible life choice?

A) I feel a good general guide would be 3rd at 4th level, 4th at 7th level, 5th at 10th level and 6th at 13th level. Give or take.

B) I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean "one or two shoot ahead of all the others by a few levels and are noticeably better"? Or actual evolutions or something else entirely?

C) Late-game. So, after 15th at some point, maybe even in the 18-20 range.

Koumei wrote:B) I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean "one or two shoot ahead of all the others by a few levels and are noticeably better"? Or actual evolutions or something else entirely?

So you've got different qualities of Pokemon. The base cost of Noctowl is higher than the base cost of Hoothoot. And the base cost of Kadabra is higher than the base cost of Abra. Now that could be handled several ways, and I'll get to that in a moment, but the key takeaway concept is that at some point you'll b able to plausibly have a Kadabra instead of an Abra based on your limitations on point spending. And at some point you'll want to have a Kadabra instead of an Abra based on what that kind of point expenditure would do to your team as a whole (and these two points may or may not be the same).

A rather obvious idea is to make the Evolution Templates (and indeed, every Pokemon Species) have a flat cost. If each and every level increase cost more than the one before it, the higher flat cost Pokemon would look attractive at the levels where their relative cost increase over a smaller Pokemon was less than a Level. So for example, if Sandshrew costs 10 points and Sandslash costs 20, and Sandslash's stat line is about one level better, then you aren't going to want to evolve into Sandslash (even if you could) when gaining a level is going to set you back 3 points or even 9 points. If the level cost was simply level squared, the cost jump from 3rd to 4th would be 7, the cost from 4th to 5th would be 9, and the cost from 5th to 6th would be 11. So it would make "sense" to evolve Sandshrew into Sandslash somewhere around 5th or 6th level. If Pit Fiend cost 80 points and was - at base - 2 levels or so better than Sandslash; then it would make sense to swap Sandslash out for Pit Fiend at about level 16.

-Username17

Koumei wrote:

FrankTrollman wrote:

• At what levels should people have the spare points to make getting their 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Pokemon worth while?
• At what levels should people have the spare points available that it makes sense to have upgraded Pokemon in their faction?
• At what levels should people have the spare points available to make putting a Legendary Pokemon on their roster a sensible life choice?

A) I feel a good general guide would be 3rd at 4th level, 4th at 7th level, 5th at 10th level and 6th at 13th level. Give or take.

B) I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean "one or two shoot ahead of all the others by a few levels and are noticeably better"? Or actual evolutions or something else entirely?

C) Late-game. So, after 15th at some point, maybe even in the 18-20 range.

I pretty much agree with these numbers. Also, while you might not be able to field a 4th combat-effective pokemon at 5th level, you probably have the points to spare to drop 10 points on a pokemon with some special utility power that the rest of your team is lacking. Or am I the only one walking around with a five-man dream team and a level 2 Bidoof that knows HMs Cut and Rock Smash?

Legendaries should be sensible around 15-16, not later than that because no one ever plays at level 18 or above. Even once you've gotten to level 15 or 16, it's because your group has made a conscious choice to keep going even after reaching the stop for crazy town, so it's okay to bring in legendaries.

We can actually make this game playable up to 20, though. That's the thing. We're not stuck with baggage from existing editions.

And in 3Gen I had a Zigzagoon/Linoone as HM bitch. In 4Gen I spread it round - Crobat, Gyarados and Floatzel each did some of the work, but were good in their own right. Oh, and the monkey had Rock Smash? Climb? one of them, too. But 4Gen has too fucking many HMs.

Yes my super fire monkey named MUNKEY had both the rock climb and Rock breaking moves.

Actually, that brings up another question: do we even want "HM Bitch" moves in the game? And if so, which ones?

I mean, we could require Pokemon to have the Surf ability trained in order to actually ferry people on their backs if we wanted to "stay true" to the games, but we could also say that any Pokemon who can swim and has sufficient Bigness can just carry people around on its back. The same goes for Strength and Fly. You might be able to have Charizard Flamethrower any pesky saplings that dare to block your path, rather than having to carry around something that knows Cut.

On the other hand, maybe we *want* particular moves like Rock Smash to be the go-to "get this crap out of my way" attack.

The practice is reasonably common. From a simple tactics standpoint: I submit that Linoone can learn Cut, Strength, Rock Smash, and Whirlpool if you are playing Soul Silver. This gets rid of all the shittiest HMs and he still makes you money just for sitting around in slot 6. Alternately, Munchlax gets Rock Climb instead of Cut, but still gets Pickup.

Anyway, let's make the assumption that a character can't control a Pokemon of higher level than themselves. And then let's go to 10th level, where supposedly you're supposed to have 5 Pokemon and yourself. That would be totally doable on like 600 points. Here is how that could break down:

• Leader: Pokemaster (0 Points), 10th level (0 Points)
• Sandslash (20 Points), 10th level (100 points)
• Formian Worker (10 Points), 10th level (100 Points)
• Venomoth (29 Points), 10th level (100 points)
• Corolax (10 Points), 10th level (100 points)
• Seaking (31 Points), 10th level (100 Points)
  
  600 Points

Now, let's go crazy. And by crazy, I mean slip in a 6th level Plusle and a 6th level Minun to helping hand the rest of the squad:

• Leader: Soldier (10 Points), 10th level (20 Points)
• Plusle (14 Points), 6th level (64 points)
• Minun (14 Points), 6th level (64 Points)
• Meganium (30 Points), 10th level (100 points)
• Tyranitar (53 Points), 10th level (100 points)
• Nightmare Beast (31 Points), 10th level (100 Points)
  
  600 Points

Assumptions: Pokemon who evolve from level have a points cost of their evolution level in the gameboy game minus 2. Higher tier non-evolving pokemon have a cost of a roughly equivalent evolution chain pokemon. The more powerful leader classes have a cost of 10 plus a surcharge for the character's level. So the Soldier Class might cost 2/level while the Psychic costs 3/level. And yeah, that means that at 15th level, the fact that your trainer is a Psychic would be counted as slightly more expensive than your leader just being Tyranitar, but based on what Sabrina can do, that seems pretty reasonable.

Do those seem like workable groups?

-Username17

Yeah, that looks good to me.

Here's a comparison of Pokemon Monsters, and D&D Monsters and their point cost:

Monster Level	Point Cost	Pokemon with that Cost	D&D Pokemon
1	10	Pidgie	Corollax
2	14	Minun	Sail Snake
3	17	Fearow	Mephit
4	20	Sandslash	Displacer Beast
5	24	Dugtrio	Hydra
6	28	Dragonair	Catoblepas
7	32	Ninetails	Gorgon
8	37	Omastar	Slaablue
9	42	Rhydon	Lyrneos
10	47	Salamence	Razorboar
11	53	Tyranitar	Cauchemar
12	59	Vileplume	Elemental Weird
13	65	Crobat	Titantoad
14	71	Gengar	Sepiahulk
15	77	Metagross	Battlebriar
16	85	Articuno	Marilith
17	93	Registeel	Pit Fiend
18	101	Ho-oh	Tarrasque
19	110	Kyogre	Solar
20	121	Mewtwo	Tiamat

Paint-by-numbers Dragons and their evolution trees and their points cost:

Stage	Black Dragons	Gold Dragons	Red Dragons	White Dragons
1	Hatchblak (14)	Aureptile (18)	Warmling (18)	Whitling (14)
2	Shadrake (28)	Jinlung (32)	Pyraur (32)	Bliznake (28)
3	Caliginiss (55)	Sirrush (65)	Dracocaust (65)	Paelerpent (55)
4	Skullosaur (87)	Golwyrm (101)	Crimsaur (101)	Tatzlwyrm (87)

Base Leadership Values! So these are generated by a pretty simple mathematical fit to Koumei's projection for team growth. Go ahead and play with it a bit to see if you think it's giving the kind of tams you want.

Level	Leadership
1	25
2	33
3	45
4	90
5	120
6	155
7	250
8	315
9	395
10	600
11	720
12	845
13	1250
14	1500
15	1700
16	1850
17	2000
18	2250
19	2500
20	2750

So to reiterate:

• A Pokemon on your team costs its base cost (10 for Formian Worker, 121 for Tiamat) plus its level squared.
• Upgrading your leader to a monster costs the monster's base cost.
• Upgrading your leader to a humanoid maniac class costs 10 points plus 1 point per level per tier. So Singer costs 10 + 1/level, Soldier costs 10 + 2/level, and Psychic costs 10 + 3/level.
• The monsters on your team can't be higher level than your leader.
• Helping Hand doesn't work at full power on allies more than 4 levels above your own.

-Username17

So, is the idea with your first chart that you don't get to meet any of those creatures at a lower level than indicated? I'm just wondering if at trainer level one you could have a level 1 Pidgey and a level 1 Minun, or if Minun is always going to be at least level 2.

Either way, looks cool and I'm enjoying playing around with it.

And while we're doing these thought experiments, let's look at the generated gym challenges. You have an expected level that you're going to want to challenge gyms at, which is parentheses. What they send after you in a Gym Challenge is based on your level. My assumption is that actual Gym Leaders and members of the Elite Four are about 16th level. So if you get an 8th badge you really probably could go off and form your own gym or save the world or go for the championship or something.

Badge	Planet Sore	Gloomwood	Banemire	Port Friendship	Sandcone	Abysshome	Blizzardwatch	Dungeondelve
1st (2)	Fire Elemental Houndour	Metapod Cascoon Formian Worker	Hatchblak Dryad	Machop Bloodhawk	Sandshrew Dust Mephit	Magikarp Piplup Feebass	Abra Smoochum	Eyeball Allip
2nd (4)	Magby Houndour Fire Bat	Sail Snake Metapod Phase Wasp	Felldrake Dryad Bellsprout	Machop Unicorn Tyrogue	Dust Mephit Diglet Geodude	Piplup Sirine Krabby	Will-o-Wisp Chimeco	Duskull Eyeball Vargoyle
3rd (6)	Houdoom Quasit Ashrat	Phase Spider Grey Ooze Metapod	Hydra Bellsprout Bayleaf	Machoke Diretoad Slaared	Hippopotas Geodude Cubone	Terlen Prinplup Relicanth	Will-o-Wisp Delibird Ice Mephit	Duskull Eyeball Displacer Beast
4th (8)	Houndoom Bezikira Ash Rat Quasit		Basilisk Hydra Bayleaf Dryad	Machoke Slaablue Mankey Tyrogue
5th (10)
6th (12)
7th (14)
8th (16)

Ugh. That's a lot of little boxes. I am going to finish it later.

-Username17

Jilocasin wrote:So, is the idea with your first chart that you don't get to meet any of those creatures at a lower level than indicated? I'm just wondering if at trainer level one you could have a level 1 Pidgey and a level 1 Minun, or if Minun is always going to be at least level 2.

Either way, looks cool and I'm enjoying playing around with it.

Probably you should be able to encounter them about 1 level lower than that, so that you can have one when you achieve the level that they are.

Anyway, I was finding making the Badge Test chart pretty hrd because I was looking shit up in like a gajillion different places to guesstimate the costs of various Pokemon, and I figure that I should nail that shit down a bit.

Bug Type:

Name	Cost	Movelist 1	Movelist 2	Movelist 3
Caterpie	6	Worm	Weaver
Weedle	6	Worm	Poisoner
Wurmple	6	Worm	Weaver
Neoneogi	6	Beetle	Poisoner
Kricketot	6	Beetle	Singer
Cascoon	8	Pod	Weaver
Silcoon	8	Pod	Weaver
Kakuna	8	Pod	Poisoner
Metapod	8	Pod	Weaver
Ether Scarab	10	Dimension Rift	Beetle
Combee	10	Bee	Delicious
Surskit	10	Spitter	Beetle
Nincada	10	Beetle	Digger
Burmy	10	Worm		Ninjitsu
Spinarak	10	Weaver	Poisoner	Bully
Ledyba	12	Beetle	Boxing	Cheerleader
Pineco	13	Pod	Dancer	Pokebomb
Venonat	14	Moth	Confuser
Paras	14	Lobster	Gasser	Vampire
Anorith	17	Fossil	Lobster
Phase Wasp	17	Dimensional Rift	Bee	Mind Bullets
Ankheg	17	Digger	Beetle	Caustic
Neogi	20	Beetle	Poisoner	Dominator
Ledian	20	Beetle	Boxing	Cheerleader
Ariados	20	Weaver	Poisoner	Bully
Kriketune	20	Beetle	Singer
Dustox	20	Moth	Confuser	Assassin
Beautifly	20	Moth	Confuser	Wind Rider
Beedrill	20	Bee	Poisoner	Assassin
Butterfree	20	Confuser	Moth	Wind Rider
Yanma	20	Air Ace	Beetle
Illumise	20	Charm	Beetle	Esoteric Martial Arts
Volbeat	20	Beetle	Lasers
Parasect	24	Lobster	Gasser	Vampire
Phase Spider	24	Weaver	Dimensional Rift	Assassin
Masquerain	26	Spitter	Air Ace	Bully
Mothim	28	Moth	Confuser
Neogempai	28	Pod	Mothership
Wormadram	28	Gadgeteer	Dancer	Ninjitsu
Venomoth	31	Moth	Confuser	Words of Doom
Forretress	31	Pod	Sphere	Pokebomb
Yanmega	32	Air Ace	Lobster	Slasher
Remorhazz	32	Body Inferno	Worm	Esoteric Biting Arts
Umber Hulk	37	Martial Artist	Confuser	Esoteric Martial Arts
Ninjask	37	Poisoner	Baton Passer	Ninjitsu
Shedinja	37	Bee	Wraith	Words of Doom
Inferno Spider	40	Weaver	Body Inferno	Assassin
Vespiquen	40	Bee	Mothership	Dominator
Armaldo	43	Fossil	Lobster
Heracross	45	Martial Artist	Rhino
Pinsir	45	Martial Artist	Beetle	Assassin
Scyther	47	Swordsman	Bee	Slasher
Shuckle	50	Worm	Sleepyhead	Caustic
Shadow Spider	55	Weaver	Dimensional Rift	Assassin
Scizor	59	Swordsman	Knight	Slasher
Siege Crab	65	Lobster	Titan
Sepia Hulk	71	Martial Artist	Confuser	Esoteric Martial Arts
Megapede	85	Worm	Titan
Thorciasid	90	Weaver	Gloom and Doom	Evil Bastard
Devastation Beetle	96	Gasser	Titan	Beetle
Vermiurge	101	Lobster	Poisoner	Mothership

Just, what, 16 more to do?

-Username17

Hope I'm not being too presumptuous. Let me know if I am. This is just the pokemon, I'll add in dnd monsters later.

---

Water Type:

Name	Cost	Movelist 1	Movelist 2	Movelist 3
Magikarp	6	Fishy
Feebas	6	Fishy
Wooper	8	Fishy	Muddy
Remoraid	10	Fishy	Spitter
Shellder	10	Hardbody		Bivalve
Psyduck	10	Water Fowl	Confuser
Surskit	10	Spitter	Beetle
Poliwag	10	Battletoad	Confuser
Goldeen	10	Fishy	Esoteric Horn Arts
Finneon	10	Fishy	Aerialist
Lotad	10	Wading Pool	Pain in the Grass
Wingull	10	Water Fowl	Aerialist
Corphish	12	Lobster	Bully
Krabby	13	Lobster	Slasher
Corsola	13	Hard Rock	Wading Pool
Chinchou	13	Fishy	Living Battery
Luvdisc	14	Fishy	Power of Cute
Squirtle	14	Turtle Power	Hardbody
Totodile	14	Bite Club	Hydro Warrior
Mudkip	14	Fishy	Power of Cute
Piplup	14	Water Fowl	Power of Cute
Seel	14	Frosty	Power of Cute
Spheal	14	Sphere	Frosty	Power of Cute
Marill	14	Power of Cute	Mouse
Carvahna	14	Fishy	Evil Bastard
Buizel	16	Wading Pool	Weasel
Tentacool	16	Tentacular	Toxic Touch	Wading Pool
Barboach	17	Fishy	Muddy
Mantyke	17	Fishy	Aerialist
Quagsire	17	Burrower	Wading Pool	Powerhouse
Horsea	20	Fishy	Little Dragon
Omanyte	20	Fossil	Deep Sea Creature
Kabuto	20	Fossil	Lobster
Qwilfish	20	Fishy	Toxic Touch
Shellos	20	Wading Pool	Amorphous Form
Clamperl	20	Hard Body	Bivalve
Wailmer	20	Fishy	Sphere
Staryu	20	Star Power!	Confuser	Deep Sea Creature
Slowpoke	20	Wading Pool	Confuser
Pelipper	20	Water Fowl	Aerialist
Bibarel	20	Wading Pool	Power of Cute
Poliwhirl	22	Battletoad	Confuser	Boxing
Octillery	23	Deep Sea Creature	Toxic Touch	Tentacular
Azumarill	24	Mouse	Power of Cute	Torrential Power
Lombre	24	Wading Pool	Pain in the Grass	Dancer
Floatzel	25	Wading Pool	Bite Club	Weasel
Lanturn	25	Deep Sea Creature	Living Battery	Fishy
Gorebyss	26	Fishy	Empath	Bully
Huntail	26	Oh! It's a Snake	Deep Sea Creature	Bite Club
Crawdaunt	27	Lobster	Deep Sea Creature	Evil Bastard
Wartortle	28	Turtle Power	Hard Body	Bite Club
Croconaw	28	Hydro Warrior	Bite Club	Predator
Marshstomp	28	Hydro Warrior	Burrower
Prinplup	28	Hydro Warrior	Frosty	Aerialist
Gastrodon	28	Amorphous Form	Wading Pool	Burrower
Whiscash	28	Deep Sea Creature	Burrower
Lumineon	29	Deep Sea Creature	Frosty	Beauty Pageant
Seadra	30	Deep Sea Creature	Little Dragon	Poisoner
Golduck	31	Hydro Warrior	Confuser	Esoteric Martial Arts
Seaking	31	Deep Sea Creature	Esoteric Horn Arts	Fishy
Dewgong	32	Frosty	Deep Sea Creature	Esoteric Horn Arts
Sealeo	32	Frosty	Power of Cute	Bite Club
Kingler	32	Lobster	Slasher	Hardbody
Mantine	32	Fishy	Aerialist
Slowbro	35	Hydro Warrior	Empath	Powerhouse
Slowking	37	Hydro Warrior	Psychokinetic	Powerhouse
Sharpedo	37	Deep Sea Creature	Evil Bastard	Bite Club
Omastar	37	Fossil	Deep Sea Creature	Hard Rock
Wailord	38	Gasser	Deep Sea Creature
Tentacruel	42	Toxic Touch	Tentacular	Deep Sea Creature
Walrein	42	Frosty	Torrential Power	Bite Club
Ludicolo	42	Hydro Warrior	Pain in the Grass	Dancer
Politoed	45	Battletoad	Power of Cute	Esoteric Martial Arts
Poliwrath	45	Hydro Warrior	Boxing
Vaporeon	45	Torrential Power	Big Dog	Power of Cute
Blastoise	47	Turtle Power	Hard Body	Hydro Warrior
Feraligatr	47	Hydro Warrior	Esoteric Martial Arts	Bite Club
Swampert	47	Battletoad	Burrower	Furious Monster
Empoleon	47	Frosty	Aerialist	Heavy Metal
Cloyster	50	Hardbody	Deep Sea Creature	Evil Bastard
Lapras	50	Deep Sea Creature	Frosty	Beauty Pageant
Starmie	53	Star Power!	Empath	Torrential Power
Milotic	54	Deep Sea Creature	Empath	Beauty Pageant
Phione	59	Deep Sea Creature	Amorphous Form
Relicanth	59	Deep Sea Creature	Fossil	Hard Rock
Siege Crab	65	Lobster	Titan
Kingdra	65	Angry Dragon	Torrential Power	Speedy
Gyarados	71	Angry Dragon	Torrential Power	Bite Club
Kabutops	77	Fossil	Slasher	Lobster
Manaphy	77	Ocean's Might	Power of Cute	Cheerleader
Suicune	101	Torrential Power	Big Dog	Frosty
Kyogre	110	Cosmic Forces	Ocean's Might	Kaiju
Palkia	121	Angry Dragon	Dimensional Rift	Torrential Power